[yessirnosir]

I have no clue as to how computers work.

Electricity - yeah, sort of, but no, not really.

The moon - I would think that with the earth and moon in constant motion that it would look different in the course of one single night. Like half full at 8PM and full at midnight or something like that.

How that ground ball went between Bill Buckner's legs during the '86 world series.

What don't you understand?

[skytrekker]

Billy Buck? Ah yes as a New Englander I remember.
A PC? lots of interesting stuff-easier in the some of parts then you think.

[Panterro]

Obama's Stimulus PLan??

[skytrekker]

His stimulus plan; Obama's is to try and rescue the USA from 30 years of Reagan Voodoo economics. And from the disaster of 'Scrub', aka as the failed Midland Oilman.

[the dufferz]

I don't understand how $18 per week is going to stimulate my economy when it is going to cost us 1 trillion dollars.

I don't understand how protecting a mouse in san francisco will stimulate the economy.

I don't understand how they can vote on a bill that nobody has read. over 1000 pages.

I don't understand how anybody could agree and be happy with this.

I don't understand how anybody can see this as bad:

Before Reagan:

interest rates 21%
Unemployment 9%
Inflation rate 12%

After Reagan:

Interest rates 6%
Unemployment rate 6%
Inflation rate 3%

Yeah, doesn't get much worst that that!!

Sorry Sky, we don't see eye to eye... still like you though.

Duff

[skytrekker]

Duff

- Reagan is dead- he was the dumbest President we ever had-

the only thing that helped Ray-Gun was Paul Volker- who lifted interest rates to stop oil based inflation brought on by high oil and the Vietnam war spending of the 60s and 70s.

Under 30 years of conservative laissez faire economics we have never seen such a huge gap between the rich and the poor-except in the 1920's with Coolidge and Hoover.

We have seen the largest economic crises since the great depression - all brought about by no regulation, and the failed policies of conservative trickle down economics and those of devoted Ayn Rand follower Alan Greenspan- who said the 'markets can regulate themselves' Dr. Greenspan has now largely been discredited.

With unemployment likely to reaching 9 or 10% with millions more without health care
I love to hear right wing Rush Limbaugh conservatives lecture - I want to hear the greatness of Ray-Gun and 'Scrub' and what they have done.

Duff- the conservative revolution is over- at least for a generation. Its 1929 all over again- where government for better or worse is going to play a larger role.

Sorry Duff- Even Bush said he had to 'socialize' the banks to save capitalism. Too bad FDR saved capitalism in 1932 - with his limited reforms; frankly IMO he did not reign in the excesses of the free enterprise system more- that's why we got stuck with an idiot lame brain like Reagan, and that is why we have so many American hurting today.

[Panterro]

Your all stupid, shut up.

[PURPLE FLASHES]

Why does the barrel of Speckled Hen always need changing when I`m being refilled ..

[the dufferz]

Sky,

Oh so much fodder, so little time.

First, Reagan is dead. You got that right. conservative revolution has been out of power since 2000, so we are on year #9 of being out of power. A generation is usually about 10 years in many studies, so we got about 2 years to go... baring obama doing something stupid and realizing that his socialism won't work... oh, socialism has failed everytime it has been tried.

What works every time it is tried is to reduce taxes on businesses so that they can hire more people and build infrastructure. It never fails... Don't believe me, don't look at Reagan... no, look at JFK. He did it.

As for the socialists and liberals vs. the conservatives:

FDR: government fixes everything... economists agree that his socialist policies extended the great depression by several years. Had it not been for Pearl Harbor it would have lasted longer.

Kennedy: Reduced taxes of the top tax rate (you know those bastard rich people who need to pay their fair share). increased the amount of money the government took in because those bastards stopped hiding their money and use it for investment which increased productivity.

Johnson: The great society... end poverty by throwing money at it... glad that we no long have poverty...Whew!!! those programs grew the government and aided in the malaise of the 70's.

Reagan: cut taxes, tax rates, help business thrive. Income to the government bolted upward. Had it not been for a congress that spent like drunken pigs...

Clinton: tried the socialist approach for the first two years of being in office with Mrs. Clinton trying to socialize medicine... Newt and the conservatives took over both houses. Clinton failed, the economy improved.

Bush: spent like a drunk sailor with all of congress leading the way.

Obama: socialist formed in the image of marx, johnson and FDR. The economy is on the brink of colapse and he is throwing money at it... my money... and all I get is $13 a week. Wow.

Oh, BTW IMHO Carter was the dumbest president in my lifetime. Not that he was not "smart", he was just so clueless about what to do with... everything!

And Bush? Did two things I still chuckle about. He twice beat the best democrats that your party could put up against him. He bat a 1.000 and is considered by liberals as an idiot... so what did that make your candidates?? hehehehe. Past that and his response to 9-11 are the highlights of a very non-conservative presidency.

So, we will never agree, but I will come back to this in two years after the first mid-year election. Then we will see what the status of the conservative movement is.

Duff.

[skytrekker]

Duff

we have had 8 years of big tax breaks for the rich- what has that gotten us?
I was reading what Lee Iococca said a few days ago. What Obama has to do;
The first thing on his agenda should be Jobs; then fixing our ailing banking system and then fixing health care- not too unreasonable a list- would you not say?

Duff, did you realize that in 1946, the great American President Harry S. Truman wanted Universal Health care- but southern Democrats, Conservatives and the Medical lobby prevent reform.....can you imagine how far more competitive we would be today if we had begun incremental change then?

The GOP conservatives since Nixon, and then Reagan have fragmented the country with a subtle racial overtone-pitting whites against blacks- and also fermenting a moral cultural crusade, that has pitted region against region. Many Americans bought the Kool Aid and the fear- and voted against their best interests.

Well decades of neglect of schools, the environment, health care, etc are beginning to bite many Americans in the ass. It seems the republican party has swung so far to the right they have basically become fascists. What is Fascist you my ask?

From Wikipedia

Fascism is an authoritarian nationalist ideology focused on solving economic, political, and social problems that its supporters see as causing national decline or decadence. Fascists aim to create a single-party state in which the government is led by a dictator who seeks unity by requiring individuals to subordinate self-interest to the collective interest of the nation ,a race or even a social class. Fascist movements promote violent conflict between nations, political factions, and races as part of a social darwinist view that conflict between these groups is natural and a part of evolution.

Fascist governments permanently forbid and suppress all criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist movement.[10] Fascist movements oppose any ideology or political system that gives direct political power to people as individuals rather than as a collective through the state (liberalism, democracy, individualism); that is deemed detrimental to national identity and unity (class conflict, communism, internationalism, laissez-faire capitalism); that protects and enhances the power of "weak" people rather than promoting "strong" people (egalitarianism); that may oppose major changes to institutions and cultural values that it proposes (conservatism) and that undermine the military strength and military ambitions of the nation (pacifism).

also of interest - though a more biased view
see George W Bush and the 14 points of fascism - Project for the OLD American Century

Obviously the reason Obama won- is becasue many Americans are tired of getting less and less of the pie- where is the wealthy and controlling class have created a sort fascist 'plutocracy'
.....Plutocracy is rule by the wealthy, or power provided by wealth. Classically, a plutocracy was an oligarchy, which is to say a government controlled by the wealthy few. Usually this meant that these ‘plutocrats’ controlled the executive, legislative and judicial aspects of government, the armed forces, and most of the natural resources. To a certain degree, there are still some situations in which private corporations and wealthy individuals may exert such strong influence on governments, that the effect can arguably be compared to a plutocracy.

On political regionalism; The 'Southern Strategy' which was begin in the 1968 election under Nixon worked very well for the GOP- hell 40 years of dominance was a wonderful cash cow for them-exploiting the fears of everything from race to terrorism.

But Era's come do come to an end. The Demographics of America are different. Even JFK in 1960 called it right when he said Republicans are surely elephants, blind to change and following each other around in a circle . One thing for sure, we are entering a new period of 'leftist' thinking. It is due actually- after 40 years of Conservatism, these pendulums always change.

The great American Playwright Arthur Miller said, 'An era ends when its basics Illusions are Exhausted.......' in this case the GOP and conervatives have no new ideas that will bring change to a changing nation. Just more of the same 'Tax Cuts' geared to the wealthy- obviously that has not worked in the last 8 years. Or even the last 30 plus years.

The current republican party has become even more regionalism- now dominant in the deep and mid south and great plains- areas with what Sarah Palin said was the home of 'real Americans- mostly small towns with white people. I recall John McCain's brother calling Northern Virginia 'Communist' while southern VA was where 'real Americans lived'. This kind of cultural division is shrinking the conservative base to small town whites and religious zealots who live in the aforementioned geographic areas.

In New England we have NO Republican Congressmen left- and 2 GOP Senate moderates from Maine (Collins and Snowe) are pro environmental, pro abortion, pro education, pro gay rights, both are the last vestiges of Northeastern GOP moderates- as well as Arlen Spector of PA- THE Republican party has swung so far to the right, they for now are unable to capture the northeast, upper Midwest, west coast with their extremist views that alienate people of more cosmopolitan regions and thinking in the USA.

We have had progressive eras of the past- the time following the Gilded Ages, and of course the FDR era. One thing is for certain as I alluded to earlier- the GOP has to begin to become more tolerant of people; It has to stop being anti science, and stop trying to concentrate wealth and power to a chosen few. We are now in a period of change- and Obama if he is lucky will bring back the nation to the vital Center- and auger the necessary reforms Americans desire.

[the dufferz]

skytrekker said:

Duff

we have had 8 years of big tax breaks for the rich- what has that gotten us?
I was reading what Lee Iococca said a few days ago. What Obama has to do;
The first thing on his agenda should be Jobs; then fixing our ailing banking system and then fixing health care- not too unreasonable a list- would you not say?

Duff, did you realize that in 1946, the great American President Harry S. Truman wanted Universal Health care- but southern Democrats, Conservatives and the Medical lobby prevent reform.....can you imagine how far more competitive we would be today if we had begun incremental change then?

The GOP conservatives since Nixon, and then Reagan have fragmented the country with a subtle racial overtone-pitting whites against blacks- and also fermenting a moral cultural crusade, that has pitted region against region. Many Americans bought the Kool Aid and the fear- and voted against their best interests.

Well decades of neglect of schools, the environment, health care, etc are beginning to bite many Americans in the ass. It seems the republican party has swung so far to the right they have basically become fascists. What is Fascist you my ask?

Um, Sky, the 8 years you speak of was 8 years of out of control spending and bloated government. Tax breaks for businesses are a sound fiscal practice that cannot be argued against. sorry.

OK, Obama needs to fix jobs. What in his plan gains long term jobs in the private sector? Government jobs are a total drain on our economy 100% of their pay comes from our taxes. Fixing ailing banking is important, especially since the problem was in part due to Obama and the democrates wanting people who could not afford homes, to get homes. And healthcare... Well, can you tell me one large government program that is efficient, that returns anything other than pennies on the dollar in value. Do you really want our government in charge of YOUR healthcare decisions? Socialized medicine does not work where ever it is tried. It has been said that the people who will be most upset if we socialize medicine will the be Canadians! I live in a boarder state to Cananda and they come here for top notch medical care.

As for all the rest of the stereotypical fear speak about what republicans want... Yes, we hate good healthcare, we want polution, dirty water, we want people to die because we have some special pills we take that prevent dirty water and terible healthcare to hurt up.

Question of the day... who created the EPA?

Fascist? oh please, stop it, you are cracking me up.

Duff

[skytrekker]

Tax Cuts! Tax Cuts! Tax Cuts! Tax Cuts for the RICHEST 0.1%

Military Spending! Military Spending! Military Spending!

That is the Republican MESSAGE OF CHANGE we need to FORGET ABOUT!

Or is this not what I do not understand! As JFK said in 1960...........a herd of pachyderms circling around, clinging blindly to each others tail, slow and ponderous- No vision, no new ideas, their trunks in the end buried in the sand. Where is Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover when you need them.

The GOP has opposed in the last 75 years;

Establishment of the VA
Social Security
Medicare
Unemployment insurance
Department of Education
health care reform
Safety in the workplace
Integration of the Armed forces
The Civil rights and voting rights bill

anti environment but also anti science---
but....they have opposed also regulation of fire arms and gay marriage.....
also stem cell research (My mother suffers from Alzheimer's disease)

What have they advocated? See the Top sentence above. Well after all Calvin Coolidge said the business of America is business. Funny thing in history, in 1928 when Coolidge said he 'did not choose to run in 1929' he later told his wife that he thought 'a depression was coming'..........

In any case the last Progressive Republican President TR Roosevelt was an environmentalist, he busted the business trusts, and looked out for the common people who where powerless. He left the GOP in 1909, and formed the 'Bull Moose Party' saying the GOP had become to conservative and allied with the rich and powerful business interests- so little has changed since.

Just some side notes in History- Also If TR or another Republican Lincoln where alive today, I am sure they would look at the de-facto head of the GOP Rush Limbaugh the comedian with total repugnance.

[PURPLE FLASHES]

Out of the mouths of babes.....

A hedge fund - isn't that where hedgehogs live? The amusing things children say about the credit crunch | Mail Online

[the dufferz]

sky sky sky.

yawn. your retreading the typical liberal spew.

I'll just take two things here so this does not get too boring.

Question of the day... what percentage of the total income taxes received by the government is paid by the top 5% of rich bastards who get all the tax breaks you are talking about?

Secondly the civil rights bill was passed in 1964. It was REPUBLICANS in the senate who backed the bill, going in the face of the southern redneck democrats who opposed it. Sky, this is real history, no faking, no stretching the truth.

lastly, are you sending extra money to the government on April 15th? I love how you liberals want to soak the "rich" which is liberal talk for anybody making more money they they are... but you take all of the tax breaks you are given. If tax breaks are bad for the "rich" then why aren't they bad for the less rich?

I am so confused! I know. lets just take everyone's money, divide it up and give everyone the same amount of income. That would be totally fair! Everyone should get the same size home, the same brand of food, furnature, underwear. Otherwise it's just not fair that rich aweful people get better stuff from us poor people.

Duff

[Panterro]

skytrekker said:

Tax Cuts! Tax Cuts! Tax Cuts! Tax Cuts for the RICHEST 0.1%

Military Spending! Military Spending! Military Spending!

That is the Republican MESSAGE OF CHANGE we need to FORGET ABOUT!

Or is this not what I do not understand! As JFK said in 1960...........a herd of pachyderms circling around, clinging blindly to each others tail, slow and ponderous- No vision, no new ideas, their trunks in the end buried in the sand. Where is Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover when you need them.

The GOP has opposed in the last 75 years;

Establishment of the VA
Social Security
Medicare
Unemployment insurance
Department of Education
health care reform
Safety in the workplace
Integration of the Armed forces
The Civil rights and voting rights bill

anti environment but also anti science---
but....they have opposed also regulation of fire arms and gay marriage.....
also stem cell research (My mother suffers from Alzheimer's disease)

What have they advocated? See the Top sentence above. Well after all Calvin Coolidge said the business of America is business. Funny thing in history, in 1928 when Coolidge said he 'did not choose to run in 1929' he later told his wife that he thought 'a depression was coming'..........

In any case the last Progressive Republican President TR Roosevelt was an environmentalist, he busted the business trusts, and looked out for the common people who where powerless. He left the GOP in 1909, and formed the 'Bull Moose Party' saying the GOP had become to conservative and allied with the rich and powerful business interests- so little has changed since.

Just some side notes in History- Also If TR or another Republican Lincoln where alive today, I am sure they would look at the de-facto head of the GOP Rush Limbaugh the comedian with total repugnance.

If I had to only choose between an Elephant that never forgets, or a Jackass kicking his hind legs up, I think I'd be the Elephant.

Hey we have a liberal talking about History.. ha, like they can remember last week let alone anything further back... because if they could they would see this plan has already failed once.. and recently I might add... like just before Nov 20th. SO see Donkeys cant tell me about history.. because they cant remember it, and there for can not learn from it, and there for are doomed to repeat it.